civilized ku # 106-07 ~ a theory of moral sentiments
Friday, September 26, 2008 at 11:38AM 
2 differing views of similar aspirations • click to embiggenHave you ever heard of the book, The Theory of Moral Sentiments?
My guess is that most of you have not. I find this more than a bit curious in these perilous economic times because the book's author, Adam Smith, considered this book (his first) to be his most important work - much more important than his most oft quoted and mentioned book, An Inquiry into the Nature and Causes of the Wealth of Nations. Surely you have heard of that one - the one from which most current economic theory and principles are derived.
The book that free-market radical fundamentalists base (erroneously) their contention on that free-markets, driven by self-interest and the "invisible hand", tend to "get it right" without government intervention - laissez-faire economics - a notion that Smith never expressed nor inferred.
Smith merely observed the fact, especially as it applies to economics, that most individuals do in fact act in their own self interest and that this self-interest is not intrinsically or necessarily bad. However, in no way did Smith claim that all self-interest was beneficial for the community. In fact, when considered together, his 2 aforementioned books state quite clearly that self-interest untempered by moral sentiments - prime amongst them the notion of sympathy for one's fellow citizens - is almost always destructive for the community.
Now, IMO, it's not much of a stretch to say that Smith was, even in his era, merely stating the obvious. Think about it - dating back to well before the time of Adams, are you aware of any religious philosophy that did not in some manner teach/preach against the "sinful" notions of (amongst many things) greed, pride, acquisitiveness, or avarice - the seductive operative principles of self-interest gone awry much in evidence in the actions of those responsible for our current economic mess?
I mention all of this because, as our government tries to decide what form of intervention it will proceed with in order to attempt to begin to solve our current economic crisis, the cries and caterwauling from the radical free markets fundamentalists regarding government intervention in the free-marketplace is the primary impediment to getting things done.
Their rote we're - on - the - road - to - socialism response and objections are getting to be very tiresome and old. And speaking of "old", they seem to believe, not unlike the John Birch-ers and MaCarthy-ists before them who saw a communist behind every bush and under every bed, that there are "socialists" in all the same places just waiting to undo and subvert all the goods thing of American life.
I just wish they would get real and give it all a rest. I'm sick of hearing it. Why can't they just get on with finding things that work.
But, no. Instead, all they want is for the market, by itself and employing market mechanisms, to get it done. "Market mechanisms" - their favorite umbrella euphemism for things like unemployment, loss of jobs, loss of homes, business failures due to the collapse of credit markets, business failures due to the deflation of personal purchasing power, increase in poverty and want, the devaluation of personal assets such as 401Ks and retirement incomes. In other words, personal dislocation and misery employed as "market mechanisms" so the unrestrained and unregulated free-market can "work" its invisible hand, voodoo magic. You know the free market that I am speaking of - the one that has served us so well in arriving at this mess.
I really do wonder what Adam Smith would think of that "theory". No, wait. I've actually read his books and have a really good idea what he thinks about that.
FYI, I offer no apologies for getting a bit political. The US of A is truly at a crossroad and the time is at hand when we must choose what will drive us into the future as a country. Unfortunately, in our presidential popularity contest, we are offered, at best, the evil of 2 lessers.
My advice - vote Obama/Biden, if for no other reason than they are not McCain/Palin, who, IMO, are absolutely nothing more than unapologetic agents of notions and ideas that have landed us where we are today.
Reader Comments (20)
Thumbs up, I'm with you on this one.
I am very strongly in the Obama/Biden camp but feel as if I am falling further and further down a very surreal rabbit hole. I literally have the physical sensation of being in the backseat of a driverless vehicle, in a pilotless aircraft, in a boat without a captain.....a free market free fall and it's making me sick. Does anybody have the steel to lead this country anymore?
And I all this time I thought you were a "thinker". Surely anyone who attends for 20 years, but never "heard" Rev. Wright will attend to the White house and actually listen to the "people".
Rec'd the following today - some good food for thought!
I’m against the $85,000,000,000.00 bailout of wall street.
Instead, I’m in favor of giving $85,000,000,000 to America in
a We Deserve It Dividend.
To make the math simple, let’s assume there are 200,000,000
bonafide U.S. Citizens 18+.
Our population is about 301,000,000 +/- counting every man, woman
and child. So 200,000,000 might be a fair stab at adults 18 and up..
So divide 200 million adults 18+ into $85 billon that equals $425,000.00.
My plan is to give $425,000 to every person 18+ as a
We Deserve It Dividend.
Of course, it would NOT be tax free.
So let’s assume a tax rate of 30%.
Every individual 18+ has to pay $127,500.00 in taxes.
That sends $25,500,000,000 right back to Uncle Sam.
But it means that every adult 18+ has $297,500.00 in their pocket.
A husband and wife has $595,000.00.
What would you do with $297,500.00 to $595,000.00 in your family?
Pay off your mortgage – housing crisis solved.
Repay college loans – what a great boost to new grads
Put away money for college – it’ll be there
Save in a bank – create money to loan to entrepreneurs.
Buy a new car – create jobs
Invest in the market – capital drives growth
Pay for your parent’s medical insurance – health care improves
Enable Deadbeat Dads to come clean – or else
Remember this is for every adult U S Citizen 18+ including the folks
who lost their jobs at Lehmann Brothers and every other company
that is cutting back. And of course, for those serving in our Armed Forces.
If we’re going to re-distribute wealth let’s really do it...instead of trickling out
a puny $1000.00 ( “vote buy” ) economic incentive that is being proposed by
one of our candidates for President.
If we’re going to do an $85 billion bailout, let’s bail out every adult U S Citizen 18+!
As for AIG – liquidate it.
Sell off its parts.
Let American General go back to being American General.
Sell off the real estate.
Let the private sector bargain hunters cut it up and clean it up..
Here’s my rationale. We deserve it and AIG doesn’t.
Sure it’s a crazy idea that can “never work.”
But can you imagine the Coast-To-Coast Block Party!
How do you spell Economic Boom?
I trust my fellow adult Americans to know how to use the $85 Billion
We Deserve It Dividend more than I do the geniuses at AIG or in Washington DC .
And remember, The Birk plan only really costs $59.5 Billion because $25.5
Billion is returned instantly in taxes to Uncle Sam.
Ahhh...I feel so much better getting that off my chest.
Kindest personal regards,
Birk
T. J. Birkenmeier, A Creative Guy & Citizen of the Republic
PS: Feel free to pass this along to your pals as it’s either good for a laugh
or a tear or a very sobering thought on how to best use $85 Billion!!
...you mean kind of like how McCain supported Bush's policies for 8 years and calls himself a maverick?...even us edumacated thinkers surely didn't miss that contradiction ;)
To the wife,
It's crazy but makes perfect sense! It would go a long way toward settling my stomach that's for sure! Why the hell not!
But of course it isn't just about the money....
That mathematical genius must work for the banks... $85 billion divided by 200 million is only $425.
Oh and in the history of the world, there has never been a "free-market" so no one knows how it would go. It's all theory.
In any case, I like the contrasting similarities of your images today.
OK, someone caught the math error above. btw this same story is turning up elsewhere, I heard it from my spouse this morning, she got it from her mother-in-law who lives in Seattle!
The Rev Wright thing is at this point irrelevant, frankly it's a reverse race card.
Oh, and right on for the article in general.
And further: Dissent is not disloyalty.
My advice - vote McCain/Palin, if for no other reason than they are not Obama/Biden, who, IMO, are absolutely nothing more than unapologetic agents of notions and ideas that have landed us where we are today.
Freddy and Fanny Facts: Cash cow for democrats. A free market government hybrid created by Clinton, a social program to provide houses for people without credit. ie don't ask where you work, give credit to illegels.
The top three Senators all democrats who received the most is campaign contributions from Freddy/Fanny.
Chris Dodd
Barack Obama
John Kerry
Acorn, a democrat voter registration organization has even received funding.
Obama's top financial advisor ran Freddy.
Here is a YouTube link for details.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H-_HlpZ8azA
Ok, lets now blame McCain, who tried to fix the problem in 2004, and lets let the democrats get their fingers in to the 700 billion, and lets have change and elect Obama so we can put an end to free markets and the United States of America. Sorry for everyone else but I will be living in the great country of Tennessee.
My hat's off to you, Mark, for opening up this can of worms on a photography blog. You must have known that it would draw some fire!
Personally, I will be forever amazed by the folks who support the McCain - Palin ticket. Senator McCain is an aging, hotheaded, my - way - or - the - highway guy who admits to a love of gambling (he prefers craps). Do we really want a guy running this country who prefers rolling the dice to thinking things through? Like George, no one will ever accuse John of being "deep".
As for Ms Mooseburger, have any of these supporters actually listened to her responses in the few interviews the McCain campaign has allowed? We want this idiot to be a heartbeat away from the presidency? Not to mention the fact that ideologically she's a virtual clone of George W.
Hard to fathom all of this. If these two are actually elected on Nov. 4th - and there's an even chance that they will be - then I guess the American people will get what they deserve. Talk about the dumbing down of America.....As a recent editorial writer said, the "Bubba Factor" could be huge in determining this election's outcome. It's even reared its ugly head in comments you've already received. The "great country of Tennessee"? Are the bubbas of the world thinking about secession again? Um, you tried that once already guys. As I recall, it didn't work out so well.
VOTE NADER IN 2008
I know its hard to fathom all of this, but the American people will get what they deserve. America had all ready been dumbed down. Look at all the lemmings following Obama off the cliff.
Maybe we need a hot head in the White House. Someone to deal with a corrupt, do nothing Congress.
Our problem is liberalism. It makes you feel good. You have compassion for your fellow man (unless they disagree with you). It allow you to have personal freedom. To do what you want to do with no constraints.
The problem with compassion. These liberal ideas may be noble but the do not work when followed to their logical conclusion. We should not use the federal government to hand out compassion for us. It's our job. How many people have you helped personally? How much compassion do you really have? Being a liberal make you a do nothing, let the federal government do it. The problem is, if you have to help someone every day, you are going to try to find a way to help them to help their self. Let us find true compassion and get off our asses and do it ourself.
The problem with doing what you want. Look at drugs and sex alone and the problems associated with our society. The idea that you can do what you want and not effect any one else is wrong. "Yea but smoking a little weed is not hurting anyone but me." Does it take $ away from your family? Does it promote crime? Think you really think it's hurting someone else? "No man is an island". Liberalism lead to me, me, me. A selfish society with no morals will collapse.
If liberals will follow the logic of there convictions to it end, they will see where conservatives come from.
Yes I live in Tennessee. I love Tennessee and I love America. I don't want to see our country destroyed. If it is, I Will be living in the country of Tennessee.
Ron seems to have missed the fact that it's the Republicans who have gotten America into the deep hole - morally and financially - in which it finds itself now. The "corrupt, do-nothing Congress" that he expects McBush to do something about was, up until very recently, run by McBush's party. And Ron imagines McBush will do what under such circumstances?
And, Mark, right-on about poor old Adam Smith. His body could be used, I'm sure, to generate enough power to supply all of America's energy needs given how fast it must be spinning in his grave as a result of how misrepresented his views have been by the Free Marketers.
Wow. It sure ain't hard to get under Ron's skin......
My only question is: If everybody in Tennessee is like Ron, how the hell did Al Gore ever get elected there? Now there's a puzzlement.
You've drank too much Kool Aid Paul. Liberals are supposed to have compassion and exceptance of people not like you, not call people names like Ms Mooseburger and Bubba. BTW, you can keep Al. He couldn't even carry his own state in his run for president.
I think we can all agree, we need leaders tempered by moral sentiments. This is the root of the fix we are in. You can't just blame Republicans. Democrats are no better. Name just one leader that is tempered by moral sentiments.
Moral sentiments begin with us. If we don't find moral leaders we will never be out of trouble. We can't legislate morality and have a free society. If we dump our free market system, what do you suppose to replace it with? I am all ears.
As for the lessor of two evils, I choose McCain. Only for the reason that I believe him to be patriot and he would not deliberately do any harm to our country.
I get the sense that when people read, they tend to use a voice in their head that reflects their state of mind at the time. I say this to deflect the posibilty that someone may read what's below in an angry voice. That's not my intent.
I suggest that while reading my post imagine a Ted Kopple or Walter Cronkite simply reading the news.
Ron defines what he believes "liberalism" to be, than proceeds to build arguments based on that definition.
I consider myself to be a "Liberal" as defined this way on dictionary.com: 1.favorable to progress or reform, as in political or religious affairs.
Usually I would have stopped my post with the above, but I have learned that when having discussions, people tend to read or hear only things that will buttress their initial thought processes or beliefs. The operative words in the definition are "FAVORABLE TO". Which is to say "Not Always."
Conservative: 1. disposed to preserve existing conditions, institutions, etc., or to restore traditional ones, and to limit change.
I realize that the operative words are "DISPOSED TO".
Based on the definitions of "Liberal" and "Conservative", is why I think that Barrack/Biden is the better choice. If you believe, as I do, that "existing conditions" are bad you would want someone who is "favorable to progress or reform".
More to come.
As for Sarah Palin, and I can't emphasize how much this pains me to say, she seems to be way above her head. Her interview with Katie Couric was painful to watch. If you can't see that, she is way above her head, than I suggest, graciously, that you do not posses the cognitive capacity to even attempt to debate with the landscapist. I know saying these kind of things I'll be labeled "Elitist" and I'm sorry for that. As a "Liberal", as define by Ron, I truly feel sorry for you.
Jimmi, thanks for deflecting the anger. I don't view you as an "Elitist". With no anger I guess we have to have a civil debate. So maybe I am wrong. I am open minded. You defining yourself an a liberal that wants progress or reform in political or religious affairs. What changes do you want?
I don't see any constructive change coming no matter whom you vote into office. The system is just too cemented in place to change in any valid way. Only a full demolition of the institutions now extant will achieve anything in the way of reforming society along more humane lines. Sorry, but Revolution is the only answer. Politics as practiced in the USA is nothing more than a palliative to keep the Public busy with inconsequential activities while the ruling class gets on with making money. A good start would be the demolition of the imperious Capitol Hill building, the White House and the Pentagon. Perhaps then you could reform your country. Until then you haven't the ghost of a chance.