decay # 22 ~ listen to what I am saying
Tuesday, July 1, 2008 at 10:48AM 
Pan and corks • click to embiggenIn a recent comment, Mark Meyer took a great deal of time and thought to tell me that my insistence upon picturing the world as I see and by rejecting the "advice" from others as to how they would like me to see it, is "blinding you (i.e., Me) to other ways of seeing this image".
To be fair, Mark seems to be coming from the online photo forum mentality that telling someone how one thinks / believes "they should have done it" is the way to help someone grow as a photographer. This is primarily based on the notion that, by doing so, the picture maker, as he states, "could produce a more abstractly pleasing composition". By which, he probably means a "composition" that better conforms to the standard rules of composition - one that will please the most viewers.
If trying to please all of the people, all of the time is your picturing objective, by all means, follow convention. But, understand this - if you think that listening to what others have to say about how you should do it will help you grow as an Artist, you're f----d before you start.
Consider this from August Sander:
If I, August Sander, a man in good physical and emotional health, purport to see things as they are and not as they should or could be, then I hope I will be forgiven, for I cannot do otherwise. I have been a photographer for 30 years and have dedicated myself to my work with all the devotion that I have to give, the path I have chosen has varied, but it has taught me to recognize my mistakes. The exhibition in the Cologne Art Gallery represents the results of my research, and I hope I am on the right track. Nothing is more abhorrent to me than sugary-sweet photography full of pretense, poses, and gimmickry. For this reason, I have allowed myself to tell the truth about our times and people in a sincere manner.
Apparently, Mark Meyer would choose not to forgive poor August. It seems from his comments that he would feel compelled to set him straight about the errors of self-actualization - Hey August, get with the program. Let others tell you what your mistakes are. Let others tell you what path to take. Let others tell you what is real. Let others tell you what the truth is. Oh, and BTW, stop being so sincere - and start pandering to the crowd.
Please, give me (and those trying to find their own unique voice) a break. Stop telling us what to say and how to say it.
By all means, if someone wants advice on how to avoid blown highlights in his/her pictures because highlight detail is an integral part of what they are trying to say, point them in the right direction. BUT, when viewing a picture, don't assume that blown highlights are a "mistake". Instead, try to think about what the picture maker is saying because, maybe, just maybe, the absence of highlight detail just might be an integral part of what they are saying.
decay
Reader Comments (5)
In recent times i have read a book from Robert Adams. He wrote about the pain felt by an artist about his work.
Pain is an intimate experience not easy to quantify and therefore share.
To understand someone else feeling of pain you need to have felt it in one way or another.
There is no right or wrong pain. However, i could bet on it, there will always be somebody telling you that his pain is of a better kind.
I appreciate that you've taken the time to respond. You made me go back and read my post; I don't think I said half these things, or at least not in the manner you've interpreted them. For starters, I never suggested you shouldn't photograph things as you see them--I would never say that. What I did say (and I stand by it) is that you don't have a privileged view of the Real world. The August Sanders quote is very pertinent here, because like you, he isn't making a statement like "I shoot the world as I see it" he is saying he "see things as they are." How things are, i.e. their 'true' nature, is something reasonable people can and always will disagree on. There is enough philosophical writing on this subject to fill a rather large library. Why not simply say that you see the world differently and challenge your viewer to see the world thought your eyes rather than trying to convince people that you have access to the Truth. My argument is that your tag line, "My photographs aim at being true" is--I don't know--silly? insane?--I don't know you well enough to know how seriously you take it--so maybe it's just purposely provocative.
You post an image to a photo forum, (not innocently I might add--you knew very well the cultural landscape of this forum long before you posted) somebody makes a suggestion and you basically answer: shut up, I'm photographing the world as it is--I know what the true nature of this place is. It begs the question: why did you post that image in that particular forum in the first place? I've never posted an image there because I knew that it would result in either empty praise or not particularly useful criticism--you must have known that too.
A few things you've put in my mouth that I never said (at the risk of taking on your straw men):
"Mark seems to be coming from...mentality that telling someone how one thinks / believes "they should have done it" is the way to help someone grow as a photographer." Where did you get that in my comment?
"he probably means a "composition" that better conforms to the standard rules of composition." I was trying to make a more nuanced point that composition is important in its own right--I said nothing about standard rules or conforming to clichés.
"trying to please all of the people, all of the time is your picturing objective". Give me a break.
I didn't know "Art" could be so testy.
I guess what I'd like to point out here is that the people who are posting photographs and accepting comments in any kind of forum are just not artists in the sense that they have mastered their craft (technically, aesthetically). That they are willing to listen to suggestions about their "art" confirms this - as you have already stated in so many words, Mark.
I mean, as an artist, you need to just lay it out there after having an image that says what you want it to say, in the way that you want to say it.
By calling these photographers "not artists" I don't mean to denigrate them in any way. They are learning and trying and struggling to find their way in the (apparently) only way they know how. Mark - you're right to also call them "not artists" but perhaps you need to back off a short way, to cut them some slack. I think these forums and online venues are not designed for people who are artists - and I think they know it. I'm not sure they would (all) insist that they are artists.
I've struggled with this (not struggled, but thought on it). I have decided to work on what I'm interested in working on and to let it develop as it does. I'm not yet an artist because I haven't mastered my craft yet. But I'm getting there, and I'm doing it without forums and feedback. What does motivate me is a good conversation about art - about a specific piece and about art in general as well. And that's why I continue to surf around to various blogs and online galleries. Lurking in on conversations and gathering bits of knowledge along the way.
Peace.
I guess the bottom line is that very few are trying to say anything with their photography - and by that saying very much about themselves as photographers.